I have a problem with article. You are judging an entire movement by the small minority who show excess. To show this one video and claim that it represents all Charismatics is like saying Westboro Baptist Church represents all Christians who hold a traditional view of human sexuality.
If you would just take a moment and think about all the persons I know you know who are Charismatic, like myself, then you would realize how inaccurate it is to say "the charismatic tradition is widely known to be about as scripturally illiterate as the heathen population around us."
Brian, it is possible that I have painted with too broad a brush. And I would readily volunteer that I would offer the same critique of mainline Christianity. I wonder if there might be a way to establish just how off base I am. Like, generally, have there been studies to ascertain the scriptural literacy of charismatic Christianity?
My assessment largely comes from the modern acceptance of what is being termed the 'New Apostolic Reformation,' which is also associated with the Passion "translation" of the bible. Moreover, yes, the footage I used was quite extreme. Even so, I know charismatics, I guess you're not one of them, who really aren't too weirded out by such footage. I have seen a lot of footage over the years, some in very big churches, that rings that same bell. It is hard for me to believe that it isn't representative of the larger movement.
All that to say that you might be right, but like, I know other charismatics that readily agree with my assessments. So I don't wanna say anything akin to "all charismatics are like X." I just want to address a general concern and assessment I have. If that concern doesn't really correspond with the general reality, I hope you'll have to patience to show me where I have wrongly reasoned through this. I think I take your main points to be 1) charismatic Christians generally do have a higher scriptural literacy than I allege, and 2) charismatic worship is not generally as bonkers as the footage I used. I would readily believe that swords are not commonly used (I regret if I indicated somehow that they are commonly used); I assumed that was used in response to the scriptural passage at the bottom of the video. Even so, I guess I'm not convinced that most charismatic communities would find this as odd as other Christian traditions would. I'm not sure I even have a personal problem with it. I just want it to come with scriptural literacy and submission. I see that in you. I haven't seen it in the bulk of charismatics that I have known. But I fully acknowledge I could be looking at it from the wrong angle.
I always tell people that the litmus test for whether something is a work of the Holy Spirit is this: Does it point to Jesus? Does it lead someone to Jesus? (John 15:26).
One of the best descriptions of the ministry of the Holy Spirit is this: The Holy Spirit restores the image of God in us. (See "The Holy Spirit" by Matt Ayers, Seedbed)
Have a great Pentecost Sunday - it is our local church's last Sunday in the United Methodist Church! We officially join the Global Methodist Church on June 1st!
Jeffery,
I have a problem with article. You are judging an entire movement by the small minority who show excess. To show this one video and claim that it represents all Charismatics is like saying Westboro Baptist Church represents all Christians who hold a traditional view of human sexuality.
If you would just take a moment and think about all the persons I know you know who are Charismatic, like myself, then you would realize how inaccurate it is to say "the charismatic tradition is widely known to be about as scripturally illiterate as the heathen population around us."
Brian
Brian, it is possible that I have painted with too broad a brush. And I would readily volunteer that I would offer the same critique of mainline Christianity. I wonder if there might be a way to establish just how off base I am. Like, generally, have there been studies to ascertain the scriptural literacy of charismatic Christianity?
My assessment largely comes from the modern acceptance of what is being termed the 'New Apostolic Reformation,' which is also associated with the Passion "translation" of the bible. Moreover, yes, the footage I used was quite extreme. Even so, I know charismatics, I guess you're not one of them, who really aren't too weirded out by such footage. I have seen a lot of footage over the years, some in very big churches, that rings that same bell. It is hard for me to believe that it isn't representative of the larger movement.
All that to say that you might be right, but like, I know other charismatics that readily agree with my assessments. So I don't wanna say anything akin to "all charismatics are like X." I just want to address a general concern and assessment I have. If that concern doesn't really correspond with the general reality, I hope you'll have to patience to show me where I have wrongly reasoned through this. I think I take your main points to be 1) charismatic Christians generally do have a higher scriptural literacy than I allege, and 2) charismatic worship is not generally as bonkers as the footage I used. I would readily believe that swords are not commonly used (I regret if I indicated somehow that they are commonly used); I assumed that was used in response to the scriptural passage at the bottom of the video. Even so, I guess I'm not convinced that most charismatic communities would find this as odd as other Christian traditions would. I'm not sure I even have a personal problem with it. I just want it to come with scriptural literacy and submission. I see that in you. I haven't seen it in the bulk of charismatics that I have known. But I fully acknowledge I could be looking at it from the wrong angle.
Thanks, Jeffrey
I always tell people that the litmus test for whether something is a work of the Holy Spirit is this: Does it point to Jesus? Does it lead someone to Jesus? (John 15:26).
One of the best descriptions of the ministry of the Holy Spirit is this: The Holy Spirit restores the image of God in us. (See "The Holy Spirit" by Matt Ayers, Seedbed)
Have a great Pentecost Sunday - it is our local church's last Sunday in the United Methodist Church! We officially join the Global Methodist Church on June 1st!