Some interesting ideas here, glad people are thinking these things out. A few thoughts:
I think the ancient church was wise not to make one particular theory or symbol of atonement creedal, because they point to a mystery that is really beyond language--i believe in substitution, and christus victor, and ransom, and all of the biblical l…
Some interesting ideas here, glad people are thinking these things out. A few thoughts:
I think the ancient church was wise not to make one particular theory or symbol of atonement creedal, because they point to a mystery that is really beyond language--i believe in substitution, and christus victor, and ransom, and all of the biblical language about atonement; but it seems to me that the ephesians 2 language of salvation by faith through grace is the wesleyan way of articulating these things and is more helpful; and salvation obviously implies something we are saved from, but whether people subscribe to annihilationism or eternal damnation, seems to me a matter of reasonable disagreement (as long as universalism is guarded against). I think 2 would be better framed as people who believe in original sin and total depravity, and who can only be rescued from sin by the saving work of Jesus on the cross. I believe that says the same thing, essentially, without tying Methodists to an area where the church has had thousands of years of legitimate, good faith debate.
I also think the language of holy love should be included in any longing for what Methodists are; Wesley very clearly centers love as the key attribute of God, and I think a renewed Methodism needs to reclaim the language of love, holy love, as central to what a life with God and each other is, and perhaps figuring out how to communicate that discipline and accountability in the community is a huge part of how love is expressed, somehow we need to do that. But a definition of who Methodists are without the language of love and grace, to me, is missing a huge chunk of who we are; we are 1 John people, and though "love" is a word that has been horribly misused, it still is the essence of who we want to be, a love defined by the person of Jesus.
I also am concerned broadly that the full inclusion of female leadership, rooted in the biblical witness, be included in any methodist particulars. It's fully apart of the Methodist tradition, and I believe part of the biblical one too. That is an essential that the GMC needs to be particular strong on; I see it as an outflow of our dependence on the Holy Spirit and our obedience to the whole narrative of scripture. I hope we are an Acts 2 movement, and it seems to me that the Holy Spirit calls men and women, young and old, all to preach the gospel. That's an essential to me, and I also predict that support of women in ministry will be a key theological safeguard for the GMC, against the kind of fundamentalism I was always glad to not have in the UMC. Figuring out how to clearly articulate the Wesleyan hermenuetic (after the much needed death of the quadrilateral) to me, will be the most important theological project for orthodox Wesleyans.
Love the focus on holiness though; that to me is the key thing God is calling us as a movement to focus on and pray for and long for.
I fully support your expansion of atonement. I would go a bit further with the expansion on holy love - we need to explain the faith in PERFECT love: a love for God and one another that is so strong that the experience of sin is no longer part of our experience! Rather than redefining behaviors as "not sin" we stop fully involving ourselves in sinful behaviors. Perhaps #4 could be rephrased to include this "grand depositum" of Methodism.
Some interesting ideas here, glad people are thinking these things out. A few thoughts:
I think the ancient church was wise not to make one particular theory or symbol of atonement creedal, because they point to a mystery that is really beyond language--i believe in substitution, and christus victor, and ransom, and all of the biblical language about atonement; but it seems to me that the ephesians 2 language of salvation by faith through grace is the wesleyan way of articulating these things and is more helpful; and salvation obviously implies something we are saved from, but whether people subscribe to annihilationism or eternal damnation, seems to me a matter of reasonable disagreement (as long as universalism is guarded against). I think 2 would be better framed as people who believe in original sin and total depravity, and who can only be rescued from sin by the saving work of Jesus on the cross. I believe that says the same thing, essentially, without tying Methodists to an area where the church has had thousands of years of legitimate, good faith debate.
I also think the language of holy love should be included in any longing for what Methodists are; Wesley very clearly centers love as the key attribute of God, and I think a renewed Methodism needs to reclaim the language of love, holy love, as central to what a life with God and each other is, and perhaps figuring out how to communicate that discipline and accountability in the community is a huge part of how love is expressed, somehow we need to do that. But a definition of who Methodists are without the language of love and grace, to me, is missing a huge chunk of who we are; we are 1 John people, and though "love" is a word that has been horribly misused, it still is the essence of who we want to be, a love defined by the person of Jesus.
I also am concerned broadly that the full inclusion of female leadership, rooted in the biblical witness, be included in any methodist particulars. It's fully apart of the Methodist tradition, and I believe part of the biblical one too. That is an essential that the GMC needs to be particular strong on; I see it as an outflow of our dependence on the Holy Spirit and our obedience to the whole narrative of scripture. I hope we are an Acts 2 movement, and it seems to me that the Holy Spirit calls men and women, young and old, all to preach the gospel. That's an essential to me, and I also predict that support of women in ministry will be a key theological safeguard for the GMC, against the kind of fundamentalism I was always glad to not have in the UMC. Figuring out how to clearly articulate the Wesleyan hermenuetic (after the much needed death of the quadrilateral) to me, will be the most important theological project for orthodox Wesleyans.
Love the focus on holiness though; that to me is the key thing God is calling us as a movement to focus on and pray for and long for.
I fully support your expansion of atonement. I would go a bit further with the expansion on holy love - we need to explain the faith in PERFECT love: a love for God and one another that is so strong that the experience of sin is no longer part of our experience! Rather than redefining behaviors as "not sin" we stop fully involving ourselves in sinful behaviors. Perhaps #4 could be rephrased to include this "grand depositum" of Methodism.